Panting at night? POST-VET UPDATE

[sumbonuscanis]

I should re-introduce myself, since I read the forum every day but seldom post.  My name is Liz and the pug of the house is the mighty Hogarth, ten years of age.

We've been having some sleepless nights lately.  Hogarth seems fine during the day, is peeing and pooing normally and eating with his usual enthusiasm, but the problem seems to start when we bed down for the night.  He'll doze off for a little while and then a restlessness seems to hit: he will roam around the bed, lying down and getting up again, and he pants.  And pants and pants and pants.  It's not a gasping-for-breath kind of pant, but it is a constant one.  The bedroom is air-conditioned so he is not panting from the heat; he's not overweight; but he is uncomfortable and I just don't know what to do for him.  One night he got some relief when I gave him a dose of Metacam (out of desperation as it was the only thing I had in the house) and I thought "Oh, it must be arthritis" but subsequent nightly doses don't seem to have helped.  And I can't sleep for worrying about him, so we're both stumbling around like zombies in the morning.

He has an appt with the vet Fri morning, but I was wondering if anyone else has had any experience with this.  I've sort of assumed that the panting means he is in some kind of pain, but maybe he's a sundowner?  Perhaps he's going a little goofy at ten and the dark bedroom confuses him?  He has been a little zoned out lately, and I've been wondering if maybe he's going a little deaf as well.

I picked up some Rescue Remedy on my way to work this morning, thinking that it might be of use: is there a specific dose I should administer to Mr. Flaky, or should I just add it to his water bowl and hope for the best?

Any help or advice would be welcome for my little man.  

L&H

[blanche]

Hey Liz.

The only time I've seen this happen with my dogs when it wasn't pain was when it was the first early sign of canine alzheimers.  I'm not saying that's what is going on with Hogarth, but it was one of the first things I noticed with both Bob and Maude.

I'm glad he's going to see your vet--and I'd ask about CDS/CCD (Canine cognitive dysfunction).

[sumbonuscanis]

Blanche, thank you so much for responding to my cri de coeur - you've confirmed what was already in the top-five on my list of things to worry about.    It sounds so awful for me to say that I hope he is in pain rather than developing CCD, but that's because we might be able to do something for the pain. 

But I can report that we had a much better night last night.  He went to daycare yesterday and either the exercise or the stimulation (or both) did him good, because he went to bed quite happily, spent some quality time with his favourite stuffy toy and then cuddled up and I heard the sweet sound of snoring, not panting.  He was up a couple of times during the night, but mainly because he has an ear infection that is resisting treatment and he was scratching.  I put some soothing stuff on his ear and he went back to sleep.  And this morning once he saw I was awake he immediately rolled over for a tummy rub, which I am going to interpret as a good sign.

We walked very slowly around the block this morning - he was feeling pretty stiff.  He has had back problems in the past and he has some mild hip dysplasia and LP in his right hind leg; neither has been much of an issue up to this point but he is a senior dog now and perhaps it's all ganging up on him.

Vet Friday and I am watching him like a hawk in the meantime.

Thanks again.  I'll be doing lots of reading in the next couple of days.

L&H

[blanche]

If you want to send me your email address, I can send you some good info on CCD.  I've a lot of experience with it, sadly.

And maybe the Metacam isn't working for him any longer?  I've used Previcox with Lola who has LP and arthritis in her back legs.  It's easier on the liver and the gut than Metacam or Rimadyl.  Worth thinking about.  And he might be at the stage where some tramadol would help if it's pain.

[lmcpug]

Liz and Hogarth,

keep us posted on what transpires with the Vet!

Sorry to hear that Hogarth is having such problems

Lori

[keep on pugging]

Could it be signs of epilepsy, they can pant and may not always have a full blown seizure?

[sumbonuscanis]

Thank you all for your concern    The H-man had a comfortable night last night, no panting.  I can't tell you how arthritic he was feeling because it was raining when we went for our last walk, which means he refuses to go more than ten feet from the front door, and that reluctantly.

Blanche has been kind enough to arm me with lots of information and websites, so I am reading up.

He goes to the vet tomorrow morning and I have a long list of questions.  He's at daycare today, hanging with his peeps.

keep on pugging, he did have a seizure last year but only the one (that I know of) and we never found any reason for it.  He did have an episode about a month ago that was very confusing, especially because it woke me up out of a sound sleep so I'm not sure what I missed before I awoke.  Hogarth sleeps on the big bed and I woke up to what I felt was a mighty thud.  I thought he'd actually fallen off the bed (he did once) but no, he was lying on his side at the foot of the bed.  I spoke to him and got no response.  Freaked out and turned on the light.  Dog is just lying there unresponsive.  I had one hand on his rib cage, feeling for breathing, and the other one grabbing for my purse or the phone, whatever I could locate first since my brain was already on the way to the emergency vet, when he turned his head and gave me that "are you mad?" look.  He was fine after that.  I don't know whether I dreamed the thud or whether he did have a seizure and I missed the first part of it. 

I have noticed that he seems to sleep much more deeply these days; he likes to snooze on the mat just inside the front door, so when I come home from work I have to open the door very slowly and carefully, for fear of whacking him in the butt.  Generally he is up and at 'em the moment he hears my key in the lock.  Yes, I'm going to ask about his hearing as well. 

Pugs.  As if my own aging process wasn't worrisome enough.

[keep on pugging]

We've experienced some seizure activity in the form of just panting too and it can be hard on the older ones. The deeper sleep could be due to older age, but the deep sleep while the door opens could be due to hearing loss too. Sounds like you have lots to look into. Try to document everything for the vet regarding the panting, hopefully you can get to the bottom of it. Sometimes it's hard just getting some issues figured out.   

[sumbonuscanis]

We're back from the vet.  We're not looking too hard at CCD right now because of the following, which could well account for a lot of panting and more so if you factor in the heat.

First, he has a filthy ear infection that is being most difficult to clear up - he got a professional ear cleaning and I got a refresher course on how to squirt the ear-antibiotic way down deep.

Secondly ... his hind end isn't looking so good.  I knew about the mild hip dysplasia and the LP in his right back leg.  But his left back leg is knuckling under badly, and I am feeling very guilty as I know that test and I should have done it at home, only I have been fixated on the right leg.   The right leg is still very much a problem - the knee joint has thickened and his knee slips right out of the socket when he walks (ouch!)  But the left knee - well, we're going back Mon for x-rays.  I mentioned to the vet that he has a hot spot on his back - not the open-sore kind of hot spot, but a place on his lower back that is very warm to the touch if you put your hand on it, which suggests that he's got some kind of inflammation going on in there.  It is close to where he had the slipped disc in 2008 and he seems to be tender around the base of his tail as well, so with any luck the x-rays will give us a better idea of what's going on in there.

She said his heart and lungs are fine and he could stand to lose a pound.  Sigh.  He's at 21 lbs but they want him back to 20.  I'm going to check to see if they've been loading him up with treats at daycare, because I am careful with them at home, and I haven't given him any excuse to start packing on the ozs.

He got stuff for his ear and Previcox for his aches and pains (thank you, Blanche).

I took him home and promised him a liver bit for being a brave boy.  I broke it into four smaller bits and gave them to him as follows: one liver bit, two liver bits, the third had the Previcox hidden behind it, four liver bits.  All went down with the usual show of enthusiasm.  Did I mention that this dog is difficult to pill?  Just before I left for work I happened to glance at his water bowl and there was the Previcox floating on top.  The dog is a @#$&^% magician to be able to separate the pill from the liver bit and conceal it in his mouth until he knew I wasn't looking.  And then to dispose of it in his water bowl.  I fished it out before it was saturated and put it aside to dry - he'll get it sprinkled over his dinner, the little villain.

Thanks to everyone for your information and support - I will post what we find when we see the x-rays on Mon.

L

[blanche]

Liz:
What do you feed him?  Is he prone to ear infections generally?

[sumbonuscanis]

Blanche, he gets a home-cooked diet, designed by Dagmar Skala herself lo these many years ago.  Possibly long enough that he could use a tune-up.  (We're not up to raw yet: please forgive me.)  He gets a few bits (not even a handful) of Holistique Blendz Solid Gold kibble (for his teeth, all ten of them) - it's a fish-based one; 1/4 cup veg, 1/4 cup meat (lamb, chicken, veal, sometimes beef) twice a day, and snacks on carrots and green pepper sticks, and the occasional plain rice cake.  He gets brewer's yeast, glucosamine, flaxseed oil and Missing Link with his breakfast.  Favourite treats which I dole out sparingly are liver bits (very sparingly) and chicken jerky.  He is not allowed to pork out on such things.

I try to avoid anything corn- or grain-based as he seemed to have reactions (esp to corn).  I've also lessened his beef intake for the same reason - he loves it, but it began to feel like too much of a good thing.

He's not really prone to ear infections.  This one has just been going on for a while and is way down deep in the ear canal, and I'm sure it's being going on as long as it has because i'm just not good enough at getting the ear stuff far enough in.  My technique is lacking 


L

[blanche]

Well, no complaints from me about his diet.  Sometimes they just do get ear issues for no apparent reason. 

and you don't have to apologize for not doing raw.  Sounds like Hogarth eats better than most people!

[sumbonuscanis]

Blanche, he eats so much better than I do it's not even funny.  I am single and I am lazy.  If it weren't for the dog I don't think the oven would be turned on for weeks at a time.  People come over to my place and say "Oh, that smells so good!  What are we having?" "Oh, that's for the dog ..."

We're back from the vet, having seen his x-rays.  He was diagnosed with canine degenerative disc disease in 2008 and what we saw today is more of the same - not unexpected and not unusual.  He's responding well to the Previcox and I got us a big jar of Sasha's Blend, which I will be starting tonight ... so that, and keeping him off the stairs (and discouraging him from jumping), is about all we can do.  Well, that and getting that extra pound off him 

Now that I have been relieved of my worst imaginings, and also of a large wad of cash, I think we will both have a little nap on the big bed

Thank you to all Pugaluggers for your concern and support.  With any luck he'll be as fine as an old dog can be.

L

[blanche]

Liz:
Not sure where you are located, but worth a trip to Canine Wellness if it's do-able.  Tania has lots of clients with disc disease.  her number is 416-690-1077.  Lots of our fosters and resident dogs have made use of her and her facility.  It's at O'Connor and St. Clair.

[keep on pugging]

Sorry to the results, but atleast you got to the bottom of it.